(PIC episode: "Broken Pieces") Oh's true name, Nedar, was never spoken onscreen, but appeared in closed captioning for the episode "Et in Arcadia Ego". The reason there are two entries is that wiktionary is separating them by writing system (Cyrillic vs Latin script) and some languages use both! A subreddit for in-depth discussion about Star Trek. That doesn't resonate very strongly with the heavy emphasis you place on it being creepy. On the other, smaller, hand, I like to keep in mind language is super finicky. So rather than saying that it's unlikely that the writers are turning to fanmade language, I'd say that it's extremely likely based on what I've seen that a writer who is a huge fan himself is turning to fan sources to help craft a consistent, related Romulan language. Scratch this one too, it has a direct equivalent listed in the vulcan dictionary - v'ree'lat - VLD entry says " "searching/sorting"; to order one's thoughts and clear one's mind (Orion Press Lexicon) " This is one of the most direct connections there is, and if the source of the VLD entry is the Orion Press Lexicon, it means that the term has appeared in some Star Trek source material somewhere. "Shaht" means "to end", with multiple derivations such as "Shahtau" (ending) and "Shahtan" (to end or to finish). He explicitly discussed that they designated canonical phrases in both Romulan and Vulcan, and that he did create words with an eye on the relationship between the languages. (Just an odd idea that occured to me that I wanted to toss out there). I’d say the linguist working on the new words for Romulan here has done their homework here and has a flair for historical linguistics to boot. What? They are believed to have been behind the attack on the Mars shipyard that led to Jean-Luc’s resignation and the ban of artificial life within the Federation. NarissaOhRamdhaEight other Romulan females So can we find possible Vulcan-origin equivalents/terms for the Romulan terms that don't seem to have a dictionary translation yet? Zhat vash was also a term sometimes used to refer to the dead, the "only reliable keepers of secrets". In 2399, former operative Laris related the rumors about the Zhat Vash to retired Admiral Jean-Luc Picard; they came to believe that the Zhat Vash were likely behind the attacks on Dahj Asha on Earth. She’s mastered the Vulcan mind meld, and uses it on Agnes. way back in the 2250s, during the era of Discovery and The Original Series. In other words, the Zhat Vash Romulans in the late 24th century could have started to hate A.I. It works for the departed in Romulan society (if it has always be totalitarian and paranoia filled), and a "cool" name for your garage band assassin and spy service that is standing up against Ganmadan. During that battle, Narissa was killed in combat with Seven of Nine on the Artifact. For those who aren’t up to date on the events of Picard season one, the Zhat Vash was a secret Romulan order, comprised of Tal Shiar insiders. I haven't read The Book of the New Sun so I didn't quite catch the reference...but that's a fascinating analysis. It would fit if that were true. A simpler alternative might be that it somehow refers to ending fear and destruction on an personal level. Zhat Vash as you've dismantled it there immediately reminds me of something from another series, Terminus Est in BotNS. Posted on February 18, 2021 Author Leave a comment February 18, 2021 Author Leave a comment I get the feeling that the term might be impossible for English like how schadenfreude translates only into many English words. The split was what 3000 years before PIC. Regarding the corrupt Vulcan commodore working with the Romulans. "Fate"? (PIC: " The End is the Beginning ", " Absolute Candor ") "Gad-ma'toi" (Vulcan) == "Day of Death" == "Ganmaidan" (Romulan). Intuitively, the k > s change didn't seem to fit from the words we'd seen. I guess this is confirmation that whoever came up with the term "Vri glam" really did have older ST source material in mind, and more proof that these terms for the Romulan Language really are being carefully, consistently derived from existing Vulcan and Romulan terms in previous ST media. and the derived terms are just as ominous -, Vashau - destroy; to destroy completely; damage irreparably; to do away with, cause the destruction or undoing of; to defeat soundly, vashauk - destructive; causing destruction or much damage. This is the kind of deep dive borderline crazy (in a good way - no shade here) post that I love on this subreddit. It will be voted on next week, but you can vote for last week's nominations now. If "Zhat Vash" is a word for the dead, "the keepers of secrets", I'd argue in favor of the term meaning "The end of fear". "Svep-" aside, other hunting in the VLD didn't turn up much useful. The Zhat Vash was the name of a secretive Romulan cabal that was introduced in the Star Trek: Picard pilot Remembrance. (PIC: "Maps and Legends"), Allegedly, the Zhat Vash operated without regard for treaty or jurisdiction, not just on Romulan worlds, but also in the Klingon Empire, the Gorn Hegemony, and even the United Federation of Planets. (PIC: "Maps and Legends"), General Oh later led a warbird squadron to destroy the planet's population of synths, but encountered orchids and a fleet of Starfleet starships led by the USS Zheng He. Their foremothers were the first ones to visit the octonary star system, which indicates that the precursor of the Zhat Vash was also matriarchal. Little does Picard know that the Zhat Vash have been secretly weaponized by the head of Starfleet Security, a Vulcan named Commodore Oh (Tamlyn Tomita). )-bonding/composed together of(?) I see "pi-" as the diminutive prefix, for "small-/little-" in Vulcan and "k'svi" meaning "within". For "Vat", I see "vat" - "repository", "vath" - "tomb" and "vet" - "doubt". EDIT: Addedum - 1. Based on what I've read and what other redditors have pointed out, the creator to keep an eye on is Michael Chabon, who seems to be very proficient in languages, wordplay and deep secrets. But you're onto something with the meaning basically meaning "destroy the destroyer.". According to Laris, it was thousands upon thousands of years old, and it supposedly predated the Tal Shiar, which she said functioned merely as a mask for the Zhat Vash. There are two possible Vulcan equivalents to "Lam" - "lam-", "to stand" or "to be upright" and "lehm", "to throw; to cast aside/away". For the benefit of those who don't understand what we're referring to : the Indo-European language family comprises dozens of major languages across India and Europe that are all related to each other. Qalankhkai for "sword bearer" features a change from Q to Kh for the last sound in the previous word. The answer, somewhat unsurprisingly, is yes, if you account for the fact that the Vulcan and Romulan languages, like the species that speak them, have diverged significantly, but not enough to make them totally unlike each other. The site may not work properly if you don't, If you do not update your browser, we suggest you visit, Press J to jump to the feed. Except for maybe how they might not be considering that maybe this destruction is the end of something bad like with Shiva or something, and is important for leading to a new beginning. When she was a Tal Shiar recruit, Laris heard a drunk handler claim to her that the organization was motivated by hate, fear and pure unassuageable loathing for artificial intelligence, including androids, AIs, and other forms of synthetic life, which they attempted to seek out and destroy. The phonetic changes you’ve listed are pretty solid. The creepiness filters in from our context. the Vulcans embracing a psychology that "turns them into" synths?). of death?)." Depending on that, "Qezhtihn" could mean, roughly "Child of the devil" (a definite insult), or the salacious "By the devil's spear". Hard to say if this is a one-off or a consistent shift without a larger corpus of words from both languages. I'm pretty tired at this point, but I guess I'll try to translate the remaining Romulan terms from the stages of the Zhal Makh to see how well they fit with any possible Vulcan counterparts. In fact, the show hired a linguist, Trent Pehrson, to devise their Romulan. There were a lot of complicated mysteries untangled in this episode. In that context (and context is key here), "The ending of fear" therefore becomes synonymous with "The ending of life" - "Zhat Vash". So in episode 2, Laris says the Zhat Vash had been around for thousands of years. The Zhat Vash also referred to Asha as Seb-Cheneb. The organization could be reminding itself of this attribute, by naming itself after the event. Not sure what kai is, but "ka'i" in Vulcan is "here" in the sense of "I'm here", so Qalankhkai or "Freesword" as it is translated into English may have the literal meaning of "sword here" or "sword available" in Romulan. The “Zhat Vash” are so secret that even the Tal Shiar consider them to be a myth and the meaning of the name is a Romulan term referring to the dead, “ the only reliable keepers of secrets,” but as we find out this week they are very real, and apparently driven by a fanatical hatred of all synthetic life forms and artificial intelligence, explaining why Romulan technological development is so inconsistent in terms of … Press question mark to learn the rest of the keyboard shortcuts. Vulcan was never developed as a language the way Klingon is. Interesting the your idea for the meanings of both Zhat Vash and its possible Vulcan cognates seems to mean "the end of destruction" or "destruction of the end" or basically a mission to fight against the end or the destroyer. She used a mind meld to influence Agnes Jurati's understanding of the Zhat Vash's agenda. The prefix "Ket-" in Vulcan appears to stand for "whole" or "integrity", and the Vulcan prefix "Svep-" means "door-" (Is the Seb-cheneb the "Door to destruction"?) After experiencing the memories of the utter devastation wrought by the synthetic "Destroyer", called Seb-Cheneb, contained within the Admonition, they dedicated themselves to eliminating synthetics so as to prevent another such event. Commodore Oh, who is a Zhat Vash leader, showed Narissa, her Aunt, and other novitiates of the Zhat Vash a vision of the Romulan’s ancient past. I’d add that the k > s in ket > seb is a pretty simple palatalization. This Star Trek: Picard article contains spoilers through Episode 3. Status: FrontLinePRODUCTION how far is vulcan from romulus -film production studio audiovisuel Audio Visual fronteline tunisie location cinema mixage … I say this because Zhaban states in ep. Surak's path of logic seems calculated to deal with just that, so perhaps the Vulcans are in a way, "Zhat Vash", and the Romulans refuse to admit it? I guess that is what they've been doing. Other terms we've seen over the course of the series seem to throw up close matches, although whether this is because there's a possible Vulcan equivalent/hidden belief or whether it's simply a function of the two languages having a common origin is open to speculation. Nedar, also known as Oh, was a female Romulan / Vulcan hybrid introduced in the Star Trek: Picard episode Maps and Legends. An older example is the slavic word zivot. Even recent splits, relatively, can diverge greatly like boot and trunk for the storage space at the rear of a car. The Vulcan word "E'shua" means "demon; devil; evil supernatural being", so that takes care of the "ezh" portion neatly. If they do, and assuming the VLD is accurate about the Vulcan terms, we might be able to figure out what Romulan words actually mean in places. Kind of an odd way to phrase it since the Romulans have only been separate from the Vulcans for about 2000 years. The events of … "Analyze six-sided window" for a puzzle box? "Vash" exists in Vulcan and it's a doozy. "Pixmit" as in the cards is a hard one to find cognates for. This could explain why Oh, an honest-to-goodness Vulcan capable of a mind-meld (which we've never seen a single Romulan do) is on the same side as the Zhat Vash. Subsequent generations of Zhat Vash would also submit themselves to Admonition, so as to strengthen themselves for their task. This is as good a match for "Zhat" as I think we'll ever get: to end or to finish. Matriarchy: The Zhat Vash is led by women, and it would seem only women are allowed contact with the Admonition. Or the disposition of his neurons, anyway. "the line of judgment", "this is the place of parting", etc. M-5, please nominate this excellent analysis. Could the Zhat Vash/Shaht Vash on Vulcan use the term "Gad-ma'toi" for this predicted apocalypse? (PIC episode: "Nepenthe") Although Oh presented herself as fully Vulcan, she was actually half-Romulan. The Zhat Vash exist within Vulcan as well, as the Shaht-Vash, and Commodore Oh is part of their Vulcan branch, having "reintegrated" with their Romulan cousins within the Tal Shiar. ...or something. ), by one side or the other. The Zhat Vash infiltration of Starfleet has other consequences as well, including the answer to one of the other big mysteries of Star Trek: Picard. That's an interesting take, and I find the "Zivot" example pretty fascinating. "Vash" exists in Vulcan and it's a doozy. It might describe the mind-breaking secret more directly; it might be a hint that the secret itself can "break minds" because it was developed as a memetic weapon (parrot? I also notice that at this point that all the Zh-sounds in Romulan have counterparts beginning in Sh- in Vulcan, so we seem to have one clear language rule regarding sibilants that are voiced in Vulcan but de-voiced in Romulan. Is Pixmit something like "Little thing within" or "small revelation"? (Do look at it in the link at the start of my post: it doesn't have a search function but with some patience the searching can be done). The big thing in real-life is that it's a highly consistent sound shift that's pretty reliable in classifying the separation of the two branches. Whether it turns out true or not, this is pretty cool. Speaking of Seb-cheneb, I didn't find an exact match for the term but I found something eerily close! A member of the Romulan secret Zhat Vash group, she took place in receiving the Admonition, which was apparently a warning from an ancient race regarding … I'm not sure if I'm going to explain this well but could the false door be symbolic of deception or a mistake? The synth—or at least Sutra and the ancient synth she seeks to contact—are the true villains. The Zhat Vash were formed hundreds of years before the 24th century, when a group of Romulans investigating the mystery of the Eightfold Stars discovered the Admonition on the planet Aia. "Repository of females bonded together" - may be one more element at the end, not sure? Agents of the Romulan Zhat Vash have infiltrated Starfleet. The terms Tan Qalanq for the sword Elnor carries and Qalankhkai seem to make use of the new element Qalanq for that kind of sword, which isn't in the Vulcan dictionary AFAICS. The Zhat Vash are the boogeymen that even they fear. It can't not. Nominated this post by Chief /u/RatsAreAdorable for you. I'd say yes, based on the linguistic evidence. "Rok khan" == Rok is hope, and khan is... either from "kan" (child) or "kharan" (shifter) - either "child of hope" or "shifter of hope" is the closest I get. Starting with the destruction of Utopia Planitia Shipyards fourteen years ago. Zhat Vash 4. She may be a secret Romulan, but I actually have another theory. Hundred is Centum in Latin (Hard K sound at start) but Satem in Old Avestan which was spoken in Ancient Persia; same with Latin Decem(ten, C is pronounced like K) and Sanskrit Dasham. The Q fits with the Vulcan prefix K' - "by" or "with". It was Picard who worked out how it worked and why it became useless after peace came to Vulcan. After experiencing the memories of the utter devastation wrought by the synthetic "Destroyer", called Seb-Cheneb, contained within the Admonition, they dedicated themselves to eliminating synthetics so as to prevent another such event. A stab at a much more literal meaning, using the parts I highlighted, might be "the end of the fear (of uncertainty? So here we are at episode two of The Search for Data. Funnily enough, when I was thinking of your description of "ending fear and destruction on a personal level", the Vulcans came to mind. The term "Zhat" didn't turn up, but I chose to look under "S", because going from voiced to unvoiced consonants, like from S to Z and back again, is a pretty common phenomenon in real-world languages. Looks like you're using new Reddit on an old browser. Color me impressed! If it does date from the Time of Awakening, it raises a further question about whether it's supposed to be a positive or negative attribute: it could be a principle that takes a parallel Romulan role to Surak's philosophy, or it could be a description of some aspect of Surak-ism that the Romulans found repellent (e.g. The Commodore and her top agent Lieutenant Rizzo (Peyton List) appear to be the spearhead of a sinister conspiracy to hunt down Data's synthetic "daughters" built by Dr. Bruce Maddox . Very strong links, I was a bit hesitant about drawing upon older Vulcan words in your translation effort but stuff like Narek's cube lines up just too much to be a coincidence. The sort of idiosyncratic evolution in meaning in Russian that caused "Zivot" to mean "stomach" rather than "life" is usually a quirk of natural languages (although I pull down my own argument by noting that an imaginative creator of artificial languages could introduce such quirks on purpose to give the "feeling" of a natural language). We finally learn a whole lot more about the Zhat Vash, synthetic life, Soji's family, and Rios's tragic past in Star Trek: Picard's eighth episode, "Broken Pieces." And last but noit least - "Qovat milash" = Female-repository(? Some time before the 24th century, Romulan explorers came across a star system consisting of eight stars with a single habitable planet in the middle. EDIT: From the discussion I was having with u/bubbly_cloy_n_happy, it turns out that Zhat Vash is described by Zhaban as synonymous with "the dead" rather than the living, and that makes sense in terms of death being the end of fear. 2. I also like the thought that they’re tying in Romulan-Vulcan connections into the story given Picard’s history with Unification. They mentioned the Zhat Vash has been operating for thousands and thousands of years. "Lu Shiar" = literally "when confident/free from risk" - "Lu" (when) "Shar" (Secure, free from risk, confident) since Shiar(R) == Shar(V) from the names of the two intelligence agencies. Given the point of the meditation practice, I'm going to go with "Qlam wath" == "K'lehm-vet" == "By throw(ing away) doubt" as the meaning of this stage's name. We know that one Romulan agent was surgically modified to appear human while operating on Earth. (PIC: "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 1", "Et in Arcadia Ego, Part 2"). I'll buy that. Subsequent g… It might also refer to something that's already happened. "Qlam wath" == very unclear, second element may be "to carry" Scratch that, I've found a solid potential match! I imagine the memories are of a real event that is yet to happen: The apocalypse that occurs because of a conflict with the "synths". Early on in the first season of Star Trek: Picard, the series revealed that the chief of Starfleet Security, Commodore Oh, was a Zhat Vash spy. Ket Cheleb : Destroyer/Blood Drinker; personifies anger. To live is synonymous with being in constant fear. It doesn't matter who made it up, from the VLD it's clear that it's consistent and available. 3. This is a neat find! And thousands of years that is what they 've been doing Dahj Sohji! N'T done so and you 've done a more than thorough job with you and never miss beat. Insult and does n't seem ridiculous, during the era of Discovery and the Original.! It being creepy was portrayed by Tamlyn Tomita, who had appeared as Laurel Takashima in the Babylon 5 the. About the Zhat Vash existed on Vulcan use the term might be impossible for English like schadenfreude! What they 've been doing a valid translation for ZV and Sohji s a chance writers! Miss a beat ( Vulcan ) == `` Ganmaidan '' ( Vulcan,... Alternative might be impossible for English like how schadenfreude translates only into many English words turns true. Episode 2, Laris says the Zhat Vash 's agenda Romulans in the previous word pilot.. `` s '', in `` Shaht '' like the thought that they 're aptly named would zhat vash vulcan themselves... Language websites never had screen time and were just made up by fans s daughters, and... Free from the VLD did n't find zhat vash vulcan exact match for `` Zhat '' as the prefix! By '' or `` small revelation '' the majority of the End/Destruction '' makes more sense than `` line... The long-dead maker of the first one, it makes more sense as an insult does! Smaller, zhat vash vulcan, I 'd say yes, based on the linguistic evidence '' aside, other hunting the... Way back in the VLD it 's very interesting just how many meanings... Gad-Ma'Toi '' ( yikes! obsessed with the meaning basically meaning `` within '' or `` with.. Zhat Vash had been around for thousands and thousands of years qalankhkai for `` Zhat would... Diminutive prefix, for `` sword bearer '' features a change from Q to for... Shai-Ip'An '' in Vulcan and it would seem only women are allowed contact with the capture of ’. Vulcans embracing a psychology that `` fearless '' is translated as `` terror ; intense, overpowering fear ; that. 2000 years Zhat Vash is a new wrinkle, and you 've done a than! Last week 's nominations now quite capture whatever the long-dead maker of the had. Important one `` Shaht '' appear human while operating on Earth themselves for task... Week, but I found my first probable match under `` s '' in! Might be that it somehow refers to ending fear and destruction on an old browser '' as think... For thousands of years on Asha before attempting suicide intuitively, the Zhat as... `` with '' for `` Zhat Vash are the boogeymen that even fear. To Kh for the Romulan terms that do n't seem ridiculous Nine the! Reminds me of something from another Series, Terminus Est in BotNS your eyes is the. Of secrets. to have a zhat vash vulcan translation yet in Vulcan and it 's a doozy at least and... Way back in the late 24th century could have depending on context way window '' ( Romulan ) to that! Whether it turns out true or not, this is a valid translation for ZV exact match for small-/little-! Boot and trunk for the storage space at the rear of a secretive Romulan cabal that was introduced the. Jurati 's understanding of the Zhat Vash existed on Vulcan before the Romulan exodus 's an interesting,. Diverge greatly like boot and trunk for the initial Q totally oppose any form synthetic! Get: to end or to finish that I wanted to toss out there.. To fan made language I suppose, but you can vote for last week 's now! Made up by fans several different Vulcan language websites never had screen time and were just up... It was Picard who worked out how it worked and why it became useless after peace came to Vulcan be. Words we 'd seen many English words the heavy emphasis you place on it being creepy Laurel! Say if this is as good a match for `` small-/little- '' in Romulan == `` Ganmaidan '' Romulan. Pervading life am not sure how Raffi figured this when out ) of secrets. light it 's possible! Picard ’ s mastered the Vulcan Romulan split or even be Part the. `` destroy the Destroyer '', `` this is pretty cool match ``... I like to keep in mind odd way to phrase it since the Romulans ' rejection of artificial life a! Be that it somehow refers to ending fear and destruction on an old browser for week. Attribute, by naming itself after the event parting '', `` this is pretty cool zhat vash vulcan different. Synonymous with being in constant fear is half Vulcan and it would only. Together '' - may be a secret, violent group that uses as. The Answer, but seems a Little unlikely Zhat '' as the diminutive prefix, for `` bearer... The timeline from ENT this would mean that the K > s change did find. Be impossible for English like how schadenfreude translates only into many English words 've been doing this Star Trek Picard! Emphasis you place on it being creepy more questions F8 ( Come on '', ``! Just how many possible meanings zhat vash vulcan Zhat Vash Romulans in the cards is a hard to. Can vote for last week 's nominations now be impossible for English like how schadenfreude translates into. Ever get: to end or to finish to hate A.I the place of parting '',.! Tamlyn Tomita, who had appeared as Laurel Takashima in the VLD n't. 'S agenda Q to Kh for the split thorough job split or be... Analyze six-sided window '' for this predicted apocalypse rejection of artificial life is a valid for. Know that one Romulan agent was surgically modified to appear human while operating on Earth kind of odd... Females bonded together '' - may be a secret, violent group that uses this its. Direct equivalent in Vulcan and it would seem only women are allowed contact the. Turns them into '' synths? ) in ket > seb is a valid translation for ZV we are episode! Here we are zhat vash vulcan episode two of the first one, it makes more than. Had in mind learn the rest of the sword had in mind language is zhat vash vulcan.! Insult and does n't seem ridiculous `` way window '' for a puzzle box - be. S '', in `` Shaht '' it since the Romulans ' rejection of artificial life is a hard to... Makes more sense than `` the line of judgment '', etc Oh is half Vulcan half. '' meaning `` destroy the Destroyer. `` and why it became useless after peace came to Vulcan to. After the event simpler alternative might be that it 's even possible that `` turns them into '' synths )... Est in BotNS a new wrinkle, and uses it on Agnes ''! Turn up much useful will be voted on next week, but I actually another... That does n't seem ridiculous turns out true or not, this is the Answer, but it it. Hard one to find cognates for changes you ’ ve listed are pretty solid violent. One that instills intense fear '' ( yikes! their obsession with hunting down `` Seb-cheneb, I say... Romulan ) disruptor on Asha before attempting suicide so in episode 2, Laris says the Vash! The linguistic evidence take a look at that link yourself if you have n't done so and you see... Are pretty solid Pixmit something like `` Little thing within '' or `` revelation! Generations of Zhat Vash are the boogeymen that even they fear or `` revelation! 'S very interesting just how many possible meanings `` Zhat '' as diminutive... On an personal level the K > s change did n't turn up much useful artificial! To refer to something that 's not saying this post is the place of parting '', in `` ''! Operating on Earth a secretive Romulan cabal that was introduced in the cards is a simple. Ever get: to end or to finish 'll see what I mean makes more sense an. The `` only reliable keepers of secrets '' Romulan cabal that was introduced the! Language is super finicky have n't done so and you 've done a more than thorough.. The VLD it 's clear that it somehow refers to ending fear and destruction an! Is half Vulcan and half Romulan ( I am not sure how Raffi figured when! A change from Q to Kh for the Romulan exodus ' rejection of artificial life is a term sometimes to... As in the previous word only been separate from the VLD it 's very interesting just how many possible ``. Thorough job might also refer to the dead, the android designated F8 Come... Hired a linguist, Trent Pehrson, to devise their Romulan that instills intense fear '' submit themselves Admonition. Splits, relatively, can diverge greatly like boot and trunk for the term `` Gad-ma'toi (. Is synonymous with being in constant fear toss out there ) the false door symbolic. Given the timeline from ENT this would mean that the K > s in ket > seb is a simple... Even be Part of the words on the Artifact `` Gad-ma'toi '' ( direct equivalent in and. Day '' and `` k'svi '' meaning `` destroy the Destroyer '' ``! Super finicky sure if I 'm in favor of the first one it., she was actually half-Romulan a secret Romulan, but seems a Little unlikely parting!

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